Jack
I mean I would have thought the large heavy film cameras would have been much more expensive and yes, some of them are 1000's of £. But look at this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Panasonic-NV-M50-VHS-Pro-Movie-Camera-0-7-Lux-Wide-Lens-Digital-Zoom-X-28-/190753412856?pt=UK_Movie_Cameras&hash=item2c69ca16f8
And then you've got things like this - http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5627622.htm?CMPID=GS001&_$ja=tsid:11527%7Ccc:%7Cprd:5627622%7Ccat:technology+%2F+cameras+and+camcorders+%2F+camcorders+%2F
Whats the difference, which should I buy for proffesional film making small handheld or heavy?
Answer
If you showed up for a paid shoot with either, I'd send you packing and sue for misrepresentation UNLESS you were very clear you were using either an effective antique or a consumer's toy.
The first is a VHS machine. In spite of it's large size, this was a consumer camcorder when it was made. Barely suitable for good old tube, standard def TV's, this analog camera has a single 320K sensor and equates to about 330 x 480 (Ntsc) or about 1/6 of 1mp. Among other issues, production of the tapes has ended, some time ago now.
The Current Sony HD cam is just as far from being a pro camera as the panasonic was in its day. The Sony gets somewhere between 4 and 8 gigs of data. The better CONSUMER hd cameras get 11 gigs and are available in this price range...problem is even at 11 gigs/hour you are less than 1/2 the data rate (resolution) of the BOTTOM end of what would be considered a pro camera, such as the $3300 Canon XF100 (Again, this is the bottom of the pro-line HD cameras).
Now, between the 2, the HD camera will be much more usable and have a better editing work-flow. Again, be very clear with potential clients that you are using consumer gear.
Pro cameras can pass $100,000 easily. Lenses for pro-cameras can pass $50,000 easily. And data-rates from these cameras can be more than 1 gig/min.
If you showed up for a paid shoot with either, I'd send you packing and sue for misrepresentation UNLESS you were very clear you were using either an effective antique or a consumer's toy.
The first is a VHS machine. In spite of it's large size, this was a consumer camcorder when it was made. Barely suitable for good old tube, standard def TV's, this analog camera has a single 320K sensor and equates to about 330 x 480 (Ntsc) or about 1/6 of 1mp. Among other issues, production of the tapes has ended, some time ago now.
The Current Sony HD cam is just as far from being a pro camera as the panasonic was in its day. The Sony gets somewhere between 4 and 8 gigs of data. The better CONSUMER hd cameras get 11 gigs and are available in this price range...problem is even at 11 gigs/hour you are less than 1/2 the data rate (resolution) of the BOTTOM end of what would be considered a pro camera, such as the $3300 Canon XF100 (Again, this is the bottom of the pro-line HD cameras).
Now, between the 2, the HD camera will be much more usable and have a better editing work-flow. Again, be very clear with potential clients that you are using consumer gear.
Pro cameras can pass $100,000 easily. Lenses for pro-cameras can pass $50,000 easily. And data-rates from these cameras can be more than 1 gig/min.
Is it better to use a digital camera or camcorder for movie making?
.!
I've become obsessed with video editing lately but the cameras at school are garbage and make it difficult to edit so I've been searching around for a good camera. I noticed that Andrew Kramer from videocopilot.net talked about using a cannon 5d and so did the guy from FilmRiot so i was wondering if anybody knew which would be better for movie making;
a good digital camera like the cannon 60d, or a decent camcorder like the Panasonic HDC-SD60K
thanks
Answer
The Panasonic is a mid-entry level camcorder. The best consumer HD camcorders record at 11 gigs/hour. Going deep into the owners manual I finally found the best this little guy will do is 8gb/hour
The Canon and several DSLRs down into the $1000 kit range record video at 20 gb/hour. Getting pretty close to Triple the data rate of the Panasonic. DSLRs have other disadvantages though. As they are primarily a camera, they have to use their batteries to hold open a shutter screen and hold up the reflex mirror. Along with shortened battery life, this adds to the heat. The big heat factor though, comes from powering an 18mp CCD sensor to do about 2mp worth of work.
Other limits include file size and poor audio, both of which can be accommodated.
But I don't understand why you are comparing the 5D which will set you back $3000 with a good lens, to a $400 consumer crapcorder?
If my intent was video, and the consideration was the 5D or a Comparable priced VIDEO camera, I'd go for the $3300 XF100 (which includes a very VERSATILE lens).
THIS (XF100) is the cheapest HD camcorder I would even consider buying to replace my GL-2 cameras.
Why am I still using MiniDv tape?? Simple: It records at 13 gigs/hour and has a better compression method. I can up-convert from DV to HD and have better image quality than even the best, consumer camcorders under $2000.
Against the DSLRs there may be an edge on the side of HD until you run into fast action, sports, rapid panning, etc. The inter-frame compression of DV (MiniDv tape) is ideal for movement and action, where the HD format relies on reference frames and interpreted frames. In other words, some frames rely on their neighbors for data.
So the good news, DSLR can be good quality and you don't need a $3000 5D M2 to get it. You get the exact same video from a t2i or any DSLR of any brand's that calculates 20 gigs/hr (4 gigs for 12 min). Just be aware of their other limitations.
Or look for an e-bay or other deal on a used MiniDv based camera like the GL or XL series. OR get the Canon ZR960 brand new for $250.00, probably the only remaining entry level MiniDv camcorder available now. It will exceed the quality of the Panasonic and other cheap cameras, it will exceed any consumer oriented HD camera for any price.
Don't want to deal with tapes, computer to slow for firewire? I've been looking at card based video drives for my GL, but my work load needs to increase to justify the extra $1000.
And, just to add a little more confusion, look at HDV format cameras (Also MiniDv tape based) starting around $1000 (consumer camcorder types).
The Panasonic is a mid-entry level camcorder. The best consumer HD camcorders record at 11 gigs/hour. Going deep into the owners manual I finally found the best this little guy will do is 8gb/hour
The Canon and several DSLRs down into the $1000 kit range record video at 20 gb/hour. Getting pretty close to Triple the data rate of the Panasonic. DSLRs have other disadvantages though. As they are primarily a camera, they have to use their batteries to hold open a shutter screen and hold up the reflex mirror. Along with shortened battery life, this adds to the heat. The big heat factor though, comes from powering an 18mp CCD sensor to do about 2mp worth of work.
Other limits include file size and poor audio, both of which can be accommodated.
But I don't understand why you are comparing the 5D which will set you back $3000 with a good lens, to a $400 consumer crapcorder?
If my intent was video, and the consideration was the 5D or a Comparable priced VIDEO camera, I'd go for the $3300 XF100 (which includes a very VERSATILE lens).
THIS (XF100) is the cheapest HD camcorder I would even consider buying to replace my GL-2 cameras.
Why am I still using MiniDv tape?? Simple: It records at 13 gigs/hour and has a better compression method. I can up-convert from DV to HD and have better image quality than even the best, consumer camcorders under $2000.
Against the DSLRs there may be an edge on the side of HD until you run into fast action, sports, rapid panning, etc. The inter-frame compression of DV (MiniDv tape) is ideal for movement and action, where the HD format relies on reference frames and interpreted frames. In other words, some frames rely on their neighbors for data.
So the good news, DSLR can be good quality and you don't need a $3000 5D M2 to get it. You get the exact same video from a t2i or any DSLR of any brand's that calculates 20 gigs/hr (4 gigs for 12 min). Just be aware of their other limitations.
Or look for an e-bay or other deal on a used MiniDv based camera like the GL or XL series. OR get the Canon ZR960 brand new for $250.00, probably the only remaining entry level MiniDv camcorder available now. It will exceed the quality of the Panasonic and other cheap cameras, it will exceed any consumer oriented HD camera for any price.
Don't want to deal with tapes, computer to slow for firewire? I've been looking at card based video drives for my GL, but my work load needs to increase to justify the extra $1000.
And, just to add a little more confusion, look at HDV format cameras (Also MiniDv tape based) starting around $1000 (consumer camcorder types).
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